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22 minutes ago by ben_bai

The robotic bricklayers are in the factories. They do construct prefab elements that then get hauled to the building site to be quickly assembled.

Usually it's done with wood but there are also factories that build prefab houses with bricks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJIDjdFTVW8

8 hours ago by spyckie2

The value of work is not in the work done; it's in the decisions being made. It's the ability to handle edge cases, to work your way through ambiguity, to "unstuck" a stuck situation, and to resolve tricky unforeseen issues.

If you build a robot that only handles the main workflow and can't handle any of the exceptions, you're not automating anything; you're building a convenience tool. Basically, you're removing some of the labor part of the job, but still keeping the decision making part of the job for humans.

This is both economically unviable and largely unpopular. You're not reducing labor costs by much, because you still need humans around. And workers lose control over their job, and have to "work around" the robot's limitations. Instead of being freed up to do more work, they become babysitters of machines that they have to oversee so it doesn't mess up everything.

This is why partial robotic systems don't really exist; either it's a nifty tool that speeds up a small repeatable process of your work, or it's building the entire house.

4 hours ago by mbesto

> This is why partial robotic systems don't really exist; either it's a nifty tool that speeds up a small repeatable process of your work, or it's building the entire house.

I think I understand your overall point, but what you said isn't exactly true. Isn't "speed up a repeatable process" essentially a partial robotic system?

Just look at a modern car manufacturing plant - it's essentially one big chain of robotics with human overseers. There aren't that many exceptions to car manufacturing once the set car variants are establish (LX, CX, blah blah model variants). I would consider that whole system a "partial robotic system".

an hour ago by atoav

Yeah, but houses are rarely like a serial manufactured car. Sometimes you have to lay down every row of bricks differently with a ton of unplanned (or unplannable) things to account for, because the electrician might work while you lay your brick etc.

Not that you cannot automate whole houses and sell them off the shelve for cheap (see prefabs), it just isn't something that could be done at a site where your brickbot 2000 has to share the job both with the workers whose jobs it replaces and with people from non-brickbot-2000-educated workers from different companies.

7 hours ago by octokatt

Iā€™d add to the list of why partial automation isnā€™t worth it: itā€™s more satisfying to build a brick wall than babysit a bricklaying machine.

Doing the physical labor is difficult. My father was a bricklayer from ten to fifty, when he finally had to stop working. But he loved showing me the buildings he built. He helped build city government buildings, schools, libraries. The pride he felt, that heā€™d built something with his hands that would outlast him, kept him going.

We donā€™t need to solve just for the physical actions, but also for the human experience of building and the feeling of mastery. Particularly for physical trades.

32 minutes ago by mstipetic

Since when do we account for peopleā€™s feelings when deciding to automate something or not?

an hour ago by eloisius

My dad was a stair builder his whole career until finally becoming a freelance carpenter after getting laid off. Stairs, like bricks, are probably another implement that us techies use daily with absolutely no appreciation for complexity and skill involved. Spiral staircases are an incredible work of craftsmanship, or at least they were. I used to go to the shop with my dad when I was a kid. They would rig up these big timber structures to wrap handrails and stringers around to form the spiral. He worked out the geometry on paper (or more likely on the timber itself) writing with flat pencils that he sharpened with his pocket knife. You couldn't just mass produce the handrails either. It took time, pinned to the template, for the wood to become permanently warped into a spiral.

Years later, I ended up getting a job as a 5-axis CNC operator in the same shop. My dad thought it'd be a suitable job for me because I was good with computers, so he introduced me to the foreman in the strait stairs side of the shop. I was only cutting stair stringers, so it was basically mind-numbing data entry on some crappy Visual Basic app and then running the CNC which frequently got hung and ruined materials. The spiral staircase end of the shop was also different than from what I remembered as a kid. They still had a couple of the old-school spiral staircases in production at any given time, but those were special order. How do they churn out mass produced spiral staircases for tasteless McMansions? They glue a bunch of chunks of wood together and use a CNC to route out the negative space. Of course the grain of the wood doesn't match up like spiral constructed from one plank. The product looks like dog shit. The CNC screws up a non-negligible percent of the time resulting in tons of wasted materials. I and all the CNC operators I talked to loathed the machines we operated. They were all crappy Chinese tech, and it felt like tedious babysitting, not craftsmanship. I'd rather be swinging a hammer than do that job again.

I wonder how the finances even come out ahead. Does no one care about how their house looks? They'd rather just cargo cult an ugly McMansion that was produced at the lowest cost possible? My dad is a curmudgeon about tech in general, but it's not hard to see why. He was a master craftsman, and because "the industry" was headed in another direction, he was eventually replaced by a bunch of button pushers that can produce a low-quality simulacrum the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

23 minutes ago by orliesaurus

Loved reading this post!

6 hours ago by gotts

Reading about your father having such a long career in brick masonry sparked joy in me. Thanks for sharing

8 hours ago by mavhc

Not destroying your body lifting heavy weights for 50 years seems like something people might like.

We automated looking after the house after it's been built, no need for people scrubbing floors and clothes any more, freed up 40% of the workforce.

My partially automated vacuum cleaner, clothes washer, dish washer, food cooker, water heater, all work well.

8 hours ago by coldacid

>Not destroying your body lifting heavy weights for 50 years seems like something people might like.

And that's why the exoskeleton system mentioned in passing in the article is more popular with construction labourers than any of these robots.

8 hours ago by minikites

Better tools amplify human skills instead of attempting to replace them.

7 hours ago by version_five

Most construction relies on fit young men to do the "heavy lifting". It would be interesting to see how the dynamics changesd if technology moved the needle on the brawn->brain scale, so that the core value prop of a construction worker was not their fitness. I'm not convinced it would be for the better.

Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a desk for 50 years.

40 minutes ago by inglor_cz

"Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a desk for 50 years. "

The experience of my neighbors from an industrial city is 100 per cent opposite. Physical jobs tend to consist of endless repetitive tasks that put a huge strain on certain joints and sinews while leaving other parts of your body idle. And many physical jobs will expose you to health risks such as breathing dust.

All the miners, steel workers, construction workers etc. I knew had major problems with their joints around 35 years of age and none of them could continue to work in their original job after 50.

On the other hand, negative effects of sedentary work can be mostly compensated by not eating processed crap (to prevent obesity) and exercising moderately three or four times a week. Plenty of people do that.

7 hours ago by makeitdouble

> physical job for 50 years

I think youā€™re envisioning jobs with high skill requirements or low demand, or a mix of both. Like landscaper for the town, or garbage truck operator.

Otherwise youā€™ll generally be met with a combination of RSI, hazardous product ingestion (dust, paint fumes, exhaustā€¦), allergies, injuries, or sheer overwork.

Working a low wage low level physical job is more often than not closer to Amazon warehouse worker than artisans healthily exercising their bodies.

5 hours ago by thrwyoilarticle

>Also just want to add that working in a physical job for 50 years is much better for your body than sitting at a desk for 50 years.

Not for my carpet-fitting granddad. And it's not like he has a private pension. Desk job damage can mostly be undone by proper exercise: it takes surgery to fix knees.

8 hours ago by version_five

What you're saying resonates for so many new products. I find that most time or labor saving ideas save time on something that is not actually the problem, or address a charicature of the actual workflow. I dont think it means we should give up and stop trying, rather that its critical to test with real users IMO before trying to sign deals on a product that doesn't make sense.

8 hours ago by pvorb

And sometimes the things that are automated were the only thing that was pleasant. It's not true for laying bricks because the heavy lifting makes it unpleasant.

8 hours ago by version_five

I have never laid brick but I've done a lot of shingled roofs. The "fun" part of shingling is long stretches of full sheets in the middle of the roof. This goes quickly and is rewarding. The less fun, and what occupies the time, is where there is a chimney or a valley or a dormer or some other feature that you need to figure out and cut some flashing for, and custom fit each shingle that butts up against the feature, seal with tar sometimes, etc.

I picture a lot of automated solutions focusing on the "in the field" part where the work is easy and rewarding, and glossing over the manual intervention and craftsmanship that is needed for all the nonstandard bits. I don't know about bricklaying though I imagine it has similar characteristics, where a square windowless wall goes very fast, and could be pleasant work, and all the time is spent dealing with windows and the frame not being level and other edge cases.

8 hours ago by coldacid

Not just test! Real users need to be there from the requirements stage.

8 hours ago by version_five

Yes agreed, sorry I was thinking in terms of a new product, testing the value prop with users, which is probably better stated as requirements gathering.

6 minutes ago by empiricus

For my new house, laying the bricks (aerated concrete blocks actually) took 2 days. The rest of the house took more than one year to finish. Not really necessary to optimize this step in many cases.

7 hours ago by dragonsky67

The question I would have around automated building construction is "why use bricks?".

Bricks are great for humans to build with, they are just the right size and weight for the human hand to manipulate and place. They are not optimised for machine manipulation.

I would guess that if you wanted to automate construction you would start by making things like walls on an automated production line, then ship the largest practical piece to the construction site. Once there I'm guessing some automated cranes could move them into location far more easily than thousands of slightly randomly sized pieces of hard clay.

Work out what problem you are trying to solve. Do you want cheap construction? then why choose a material that requires thousands of operations just to build a wall regardless of if it is a human or machine doing the building. There are far more efficient building materials used every day... Just see how fast commercial buildings can be constructed and you can be sure that they are optimised both for speed of construction as well as (hopefully) energy efficiency and ease of maintance after construction.

The problem seems to be people have a emotional idea of what a dream house is, an idea that is firmly stuck in the red brick house of 1970's sitcoms.

7 hours ago by function_seven

Because theyā€™re pleasant to look at. Half the time, the wall isnā€™t even ā€œneededā€, other than for aesthetic purposes.

Whenever a wall is purely functional, itā€™s almost never made of small clay bricks today. Iā€™m talking about foundation walls, subsurface retaining walls, and similar things. The types of walls that arenā€™t meant to be looked at, but instead meant to hold something back or up.

Whenever you see a wall being made of red clay bricks, thatā€™s because the builder wants it to look nice. I suppose you can cast a concrete wall and apply a faƧade of bricks. But thereā€™s still a skill required for that final step.

Of course, you may have a different design aesthetic, wherein exposed concrete or large modular sections are both functional and pretty. But brick laying is all about looks.

CMUs are a different story, and kind of prove your point. Theyā€™re much larger and so reduce the piecework involved, but still small enough to allow for onsite flexibility in construction.

2 hours ago by dmix

So bricklaying itā€™s basically an ā€˜artisanalā€™ type of product not a mass production type of thing that is ill suited for automation anyway.

The article links to the MULE product (which was an evolution or pivot of their 15yr attempt at making a traditional bricklaying robot) makes more sense as it takes advantage of the lifting power of machines and uses much larger/longer bricks that would otherwise be too heavy to pick up by humans while accelerating the process.

https://www.construction-robotics.com/

This is much like why pigeonholing AI into traditional cars is more difficult than say having a fleet of cars region wide which all talk to each other and coordinate movements with roads and crosswalks that are also designed for automated cars.

an hour ago by mr_toad

> But brick laying is all about looks.

Iā€™ve seen stores with moulded facades designed to look like bricks that are attached to reinforced concrete.

42 minutes ago by endymi0n

From what I'm understanding the hard part of doing that stuff concrete is curation time. There's a lot of projects trying the "easy" route and effectively do additive 3D printing with concrete instead of glue. Conversely, they have the same problems... they look pretty ugly: https://www.realestate.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

Doing it "properly" means building proper moulding, rebar, vibration casting all the stuff that sounds like almost impossible to automate with 2021 technology.

Bricks have the advantage that they're pre-cured, so you don't have to wait ages until the wall actually supports something ā€” and if that something is just the next layer.

3 hours ago by turtlebits

Agreed. Bricks arenā€™t great for construction. Not structural, poor R-value, a ton of labor.

Just have concrete poured or stick frame and a fake brick facade. Will probably last longer as well.

Seems like the wrong problem to solve.

an hour ago by com2kid

Bricks can last a long time.

Brick houses also hold their value well.

No one cares about a brick facade.

Also why do you say bricks aren't structural? I assumed those 100 year old brick houses used bricks for structural support.

7 hours ago by krapp

>The problem seems to be people have a emotional idea of what a dream house is, an idea that is firmly stuck in the red brick house of 1970's sitcoms.

Your fully automated house-extrusion company isn't going to have many customers, especially after you explain to people why their ideal dream home is obsolete and that they should pay you for a plascrete tube to live in instead because the profit margins are better.

Those "emotional ideas" are what drive market incentives, you can't simply ignore them.

7 hours ago by chrisseaton

Bricks are easy to maintain and remodel and repair. It's a modular system.

5 hours ago by exabrial

If you think bricklaying is a simple task, you've probably never laid bricks, or likely ever worked a construction job.

There is _a lot_ that goes into laying a brick wall. From excavation, base compaction, material choice, mortar composition and viscosity, wall type, overlap patterns, leveling, overhang patterns, set time, and much more. Using an incorrect overhang pattern for instance can allow water drops to fall and contact the relatively soft surface of bricks and destroy them in a few years. Having an incomplete mortar seal allows the elements to penetrate through what would normally be waterproof, especially in places with high wind. An improper excavation, compaction material or compaction of said material, improper leveling, and many more factors will lead to failure within just a few years.

The best way to learn about this stuff is to go try it! One could volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or a local shelter that builds homes and get some time with the tools. None of this stuff is simple, straightforward, or easy, and there are a million ways to do it incorrectly.

42 minutes ago by 6nf

I feel like bricks were probably shaped the way they are today specifically to help bricklayers do a good job easily and quickly. If we're moving to automated wall building maybe using traditional brick is just a waste of effort. Automation will probably benefit from using different shapes or materials. For example a human can't handle a 30 pound brick but a machine might be a lot faster if you use larger bricks with different mortar configurations.

5 hours ago by alfalfasprout

there's another comment to this effect and it's spot-on. I suspect a lot of the people quick to work on these automation projects don't fully understand the complexity behind it. Just reading the descriptions of the early and later machines shows the comical oversimplification of laying bricks.

9 hours ago by ChrisMarshallNY

We had an "automated" pothole filler, in my town. When they purchased it, there was a bunch of hooplah. They had a news crew, in front of my house, showing it off. It spritzed asphalt into the pothole, tamped it down, then went on to the next one. All automatic! There was a driver, but he looked really bored.

Months later, I have only seen one (probably the same one they demoed in front of my house). It was clearly defective. The crew was using it to dump the asphalt, and they were tamping it down manually.

8 hours ago by tacostakohashi

> They had a news crew, in front of my house, showing it off.

Sounds like it did its job - it got some positive publicity for the people that bought it and manufactured it, and the fact that it doesn't actually work is a problem left with taxpayers and town employees.

6 hours ago by jiggawatts

> tamping it down manually.

In other words, the problem was that the machine worked perfectly, and would have resulted in a bunch of union job losses.

Hence, it was "no good" and had to go.

5 hours ago by anigbrowl

That seems like a large assumption.

6 hours ago by ChrisMarshallNY

That may be the case. I am not in a position to say.

8 hours ago by nashashmi

Probably the biggest problem in automating construction is not just that every job is in a different location but these materials are so bulky and heavy and composite that the cost is not in the labor of installation but moving the materials to location.

Asphalt paving requires 4 guys to level the asphalt but a truck to pour it. The best you can get is an attachment on the truck to level the asphalt. This attachment is called a paving machine. And it requires an operator and two-man crew to maintain. So no real advantage besides workers wonā€™t be tired. And the leveling will be done super well.

Other automation problems are similar. If there is no need for precision, there is no need for automation.

8 hours ago by zz865

The last few decades I've seen a lot of bigger buildings have slab concrete walls with brick veneers. This seems a quicker and cheaper way of doing it. Would seem like a good place to try to automate the veneer placement.

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